Crave Online: Were you a WWF fan?
Darren Aronofsky: I had, like most guys my age, like an eight month romance with it where I got into it. I went to one match at Madison Square Garden and Hulk Hogan was actually a bad guy. I just found out, I've been interviewed by Pro Wrestling Illustrated or something, the guy was telling me I was at a famous match because it's the only early match where Hulk Hogan lost. Tony Atlas lifted him up and dropped him on his balls on the top rope and the crowd went crazy. I blew out my voice for a month, but then it was gone. I was into it before Hulkamania, before it became this phenomenon. I don't know, it's such a big part of our culture yet no one has ever done something serious about it. What's that all about? That's why my next film is going to be about crew. You know, rowing. No one's ever done it. There's a lot of stuff about rowing.
Crave Online: There was The Boy in Blue with Nicolas Cage. One movie.
Darren Aronofsky: Oh, there actually has been?
Crave Online: Put it on your Netflix.
Darren Aronofsky: I'm not putting it on my Netflix.
Crave Online: What in your career readied you for someone like Mickey Rourke?
Darren Aronofsky: Oh, that's a good question. I don't think it had anything to do with my career. I think it had to do with growing up in Brooklyn, talking lots of tough guys out of beating the sh*t out of me. That was my training. I got a quick mouth and quick legs. If the mouth doesn't work I can always run but the school grounds in my public schools were war zones. I think that's what gave me a sense of where Mickey was coming from because Mickey comes from a similar place. He grew up in public schools and stuff in Miami. I think we were able to relate on that. I think I'm just a straight shooter. I think Mickey appreciated that because I think he's got a lot of bullsh*t red flags. If you're bullsh*tting him, lots of red flags go up. Because he's such a great actor, he can read through any f*cking false performance, so if you lie to him he can see right through it. I think just being straight up with him was a big thing.
Crave Online: Were you a big Mickey Rourke fan?
Darren Aronofsky: Oh yeah. I'll never forget, I was backpacking around Europe and was in Paris and I went to see Angel Heart. It was the first film I ever, when the credits rolled, I sat there and waited with the lights on until the lights came back down and the film started again. It's the first time I've ever watched it twice in a row. I think since then, I've just been really intrigued by him. He's such a unique talent. There's no one like him. All that armor and then you look into those eyes and he's just burning up. When the ideas first started to percolate, it was very intriguing. In retrospect it seems completely obvious. It's like duh, who else could have done it? When we were first starting it, we didn't really know which way it would go.
Crave Online: Do you feel audiences and critics and fans want him to have this second chance?
Darren Aronofsky: Absolutely. As a fan myself, I'm just excited to see how other directors are going to use him. The fact that he doesn't have to just play tough guys now, that he can play sympathetic characters is really exciting.
Crave Online: What does it mean to you that Mickey considers this his best film?
Darren Aronofsky: He's just bullsh*tting you. No, it's very flattering. I'm such a big fan of Mickey's, I mean, come on. Barfly? That's such an incredible performance. Angel Heart? An incredible performance. All of the small roles in Diner, he's a great actor so I'm happy that he's really proud of the material and proud of his performance. It makes me happy that he's happy with the work he did because when I first talked to him, that's kind of what I promised him. I was like, "If you do the work, you'll respect it and people will respect it, but you've got to do the work." The problem with Mickey is he's so goddamn talented that it's very easy to put his feet up and coast through performances and he's done that too much. So he's got the ability to do anything he wants to do.
Crave Online: What was your process of stripping away the visual style and getting into the emotional core of the story?
Darren Aronofsky: It was kind of surrendering to the actors and just opening up the playing fields so that they can create. I think the camera's sort of dancing with them so there is a little bit of a duet going but ultimately, I just really wanted to make it about performance. Luckily, I had three great actors and one of them was one of the greatest actors ever. So it was an easy job to do in certain ways.
Crave Online: Did you also want to show there's more to you than the extraordinary visual style?
Darren Aronofsky: I don't know if it was about a conscious effort to show the audience that because I think the only people that really are aware of that stuff are people deep in the film world. I just thought it was the right storytelling grammar for the piece. I also think as a creative person, you've got to keep challenging yourself. For me, even though this was really stripped down, it was a real challenge because I wasn't able to do the subjective filmmaking that you can generate a lot of feelings and emotions out of an audience by pulling them in with sound effects and music. This was really stripped down. I didn't know if I could tell a story that way. That was for me the risk was is this going to hold together? Is it going to keep people engaged? So that was a bit of a risk.
Crave Online: Does it take any of the pressure off you?
Darren Aronofsky: I don't know. I don't really feel the pressure I think. I think it's just about telling the stories you want to tell. It's too hard of a job not to do the things you want to do. So I think it's always going to be tough because any time I come up with a story, everyone's like, "Why do you want to do that?" Come on, this guy and everyone else five months ago was like, "Wrestling picture? Darren Aronofsky? What is he, out of his mind?" No one got it. Mickey Rourke in a wrestling picture? I got so many e-mails, no one having any trust in it. That was exciting though because we were under the radar and it was very nice and I'm glad people like it.
Crave Online: Has there ever been a time someone wasn't questioning you?
Darren Aronofsky: Yeah, I mean, after we did Pi, everyone was like, "What do you want to do next?" And we sent them Requiem for a Dream. People literally didn't return our calls. I think any time you do something outside the box, people don't get it but I don't know, I think that's kind of what gets me is kind of original stuff.
Crave Online: Did reinventing yourself and getting raves inspire you to do another 180 turn?
Darren Aronofsky: I'm not inspired yet. I'm still looking for a good enough screenplay to get working on. It's hard.
Crave Online: Whatever happened to Noah's Ark?
Darren Aronofsky: We're working on it. We're doing a graphic novel version of it now.
Crave Online: Who's that through?
Darren Aronofsky: No comment yet. It's just happening now and it's a great project. It's the type of thing we'll make eventually.
Crave Online: I think the best news I've heard all year is that you're doing Robocop. What's your affinity for Robocop?
Darren Aronofsky: Uh, I don't know what you're talking about. No, yeah, we're just developing a screenplay. I'd forgotten that the internet really, really loves writing about that stuff but it's nothing to talk about until there's a screenplay that someone's saying, "Okay, I'm willing to spend" what is it, nine figures? How many figures go into those films? Eight and a half figures, whatever it is. It's a lot of work to get there so I will talk all about it once we're going.
Crave Online: I understand there's no script yet, but just whats' your connection to the material?
Darren Aronofsky: I love cyborgs. I think cyborgs are cool. I think we are cyborgs at this point.
Crave Online: So that'll be a huge budget movie. How limiting was the low budget of The Wrestler?
Darren Aronofsky: It was tough. We did the film for six million dollars. It was a challenge. I had to put on my old independent film cap and figure out how to turn those limitations into strength. But you know, a lot of those limitations turned into the best thing about the movie. When we had the original script, Rob Siegel the writer had put in all these songs that were kind of really famous. The songs that were in the movie originally were even more famous. They were the real A list hair metal songs. So when we couldn't afford those songs, we had to go to the next level. Guns n' Roses was a whole different story because Mickey got that for us for nothing, but having them sing Round and Round in the bar instead of Def Leppard, which is what was originally there, actually made it a lot cooler. More people wouldn't know Pour Some Sugar on Me than would know Round and Round and the fact that they're singing Round and Round just makes them much more of hair metal fans. That's what's cool about it. It's those songs that are not the ones still in rotation. That's all we could afford and it made it that much cooler, so it was cool.
Crave Online: Did you predict the Oscar buzz, at least for Mickey?
Darren Aronofsky: I think when we went to Venice, as I said, everyone dreams about the gold medal but I swear I never ever dreamt about it. I just didn't think it was a reality for this film and I did think okay, maybe Mickey could get recognized, but you never know. You're dealing with all these international films with great performances, all different types of languages. Who knows how people are going to react to Mickey Rourke? But no, it's been all gravy. I never expected anything like this. I think the honest performance and the lens is the true thing here. I think people really react to someone being really open. All three actors did it in different ways. Mickey in every way, Marisa with her body and also creating such complexity and depth to the character and Evan Rachel Wood really bringing some personal stuff to the plate.
Crave Online: Do you think there will be a different acceptance between wrestling fans and just cinephiles?
Darren Aronofsky: Well, I hope they both like it. I can't wait for the wrestling community to see it and see what happens. I hope it breaks out of the art market.
Crave Online: Take it to Mexico. It's huge there.
Darren Aronofsky: Well, Lucha Libre is. The international, when they were selling off territories, I was like, "Hold onto Japan, U.K. and Mexico" because I knew those were the three. I knew, even though Lucha Libre is different, I think it could do pretty well down there so we'll see. I'm very excited to see the reactions in Mexico, the U.K. and Japan. Outside the United States, those are four territories. And Italy. It's the first film I've ever had theatrically released in Italy. I'm very excited by it.
Crave Online: The Fountain was such a journey for you. What was your take on the ultimate reception of the film?
Darren Aronofsky: You know, I ultimately made a big budget art film and probably had it released by a studio that loved it but didn't really know how to do it. So where I was upset was that not that many people actually got to see it projected. But, the reaction from people on the road has been great. It's definitely, more than even Requiem for a Dream, it's the film that I've done that really, deeper than any film I've done, really gets to people. It's funny, I saw Hugh Jackman, I spent Thanksgiving with him and he was saying it's the same for him. Of all of his films, it's the one that people got to. So I think the fans that are out there really react to it but there are a lot of people on the planet who don't want to see a film about coming to terms with your mortality and they'll always be that way. It's just not your most commercial subject.
Crave Online: They can look at the spaceship bubble.
Darren Aronofsky: I wish they would but I think people shut down pretty quickly. It also came out at a time, it was a very earnest film. It was 2006 and there was a lot of cynicism running rampant. I'd be curious what would happen if it came out in Barack Obama times when people are like, "Hey, we f*cked up the planet." Everyone sort of knows that now and maybe we don't need to laugh at everything. Maybe there is a space to get serious and to think about a few things.
Crave Online: It freaked my sister out if that means anything to you.
Darren Aronofsky: In what way?
Crave Online: She was a little "altered" when she watched it.
Darren Aronofsky: That's how you're supposed to watch it.
Crave Online: Are you doing a recut of it?
Darren Aronofsky: I'm not recutting it. I'm doing a kind of, a bit of, I call it more of a Redux. I don’t even know what that word means for goodness sake but we cut it actually recently. It's done. I would have to get Warner Brothers to support it and get it out there so maybe at some point I hope there'll be enough of a demand that they'll me go and do it. We've got to get there.
Crave Online: I really can't wait for Robocop.
Darren Aronofsky: It's gonna happen.
